Where is our three bye-elections Mr Cowen?
The Country Reaches A New Low In Irish Politics
5th,14th & 27th of May, 2010
(Thanks to Fianna Fail & The Green Party)
5th,14th & 27th of May, 2010
(Thanks to Fianna Fail & The Green Party)
In a stunning display of
two fingers up to all the Irish people and their right to full a voice, Fianna Fail under the leadership of Brian Cowen, The
Green Party and most possibly some Independents, voted to deny three constituencies their continued right to elect local representatives
to the nations house, The Dail.
The Irish government under the leadership of Brian
Cown and his Fianna Fail party won a Dail vote against the calling of a by-election that is much, much needed in Donegal South
West. One that is long over due.
The Ceann Comhairle was forced to use his casting vote after a mysterious blunder by Deputies Frank Fahey and Timmy Dooley when they voted against their own party. The Taoiseach stands accused of running scared of the public - by refusing to name any dates for three separate by-elections that are now due. Three constituencies that now are without official representation in the Dail. Brian Cowen and his government out-right refuse to call those by-elections for feat of losing their overall majority. In the mean time thousands of fellow Irish people go without a further voice tonight.
Mr Gilmore of the Labour party called out "Set the date for the by-elections and allow the people of Donegal and South Dublin and Waterford, to have their right, a right that was fought for by people who have gone before us to have representation in the Dail and to have their full representation here and to accept the verdict of the people."
Donegal South West has had a vacant Dail seat since Pat "the Cope" Gallagher was elected MEP last June, while Dublin South has been open since being vacated by George Lee in February and Waterford since Martin Cullen stepped down in March.
Only a few weeks ago the same Fianna Fail and Green Party leaders stood in rememberance of those that died in the 1916 Rising - those that died to give us all a personal closer to home representation. Now those same Fianna Fail and Green mob appear to be traitors to the name of modern Irish localised representation!
Those that stood in 1916 came from all walks of life, they came from various political backgrounds and organisations. They came to see that the shackles of an unwanted power to be gone. They wanted to be rid of a power that the vast majority, the Irish people, did not want, they stood and some cases died so that ALL - not just a special majority - could be represented by someone more close to home. They wanted to be rid of a power that was making laws and twisting laws to suit a special category at many times. They wanted to be rid of a system that was being abused for the convenience of those in power.
Regardless of what was in their minds for a future political Ireland if they had of succeeded that day (and they did in the long run I feel), they stood up and did so that all could be given a fair chance for decent representation by their own.
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it - and so it is today, we are where we are! Stuck with something unwanted, stuck with a power that is CLEARLY denying Irish people their fair representation, stuck with a power that will cling on for as long as possible BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY - even if that means dis-allowing the rights of Irish children in a referendum to be brought into law!
That is absolutely disgusting and those that are still teaching us history by making it in 1916 - are today turning in their graves!
The Ceann Comhairle was forced to use his casting vote after a mysterious blunder by Deputies Frank Fahey and Timmy Dooley when they voted against their own party. The Taoiseach stands accused of running scared of the public - by refusing to name any dates for three separate by-elections that are now due. Three constituencies that now are without official representation in the Dail. Brian Cowen and his government out-right refuse to call those by-elections for feat of losing their overall majority. In the mean time thousands of fellow Irish people go without a further voice tonight.
Mr Gilmore of the Labour party called out "Set the date for the by-elections and allow the people of Donegal and South Dublin and Waterford, to have their right, a right that was fought for by people who have gone before us to have representation in the Dail and to have their full representation here and to accept the verdict of the people."
Donegal South West has had a vacant Dail seat since Pat "the Cope" Gallagher was elected MEP last June, while Dublin South has been open since being vacated by George Lee in February and Waterford since Martin Cullen stepped down in March.
Only a few weeks ago the same Fianna Fail and Green Party leaders stood in rememberance of those that died in the 1916 Rising - those that died to give us all a personal closer to home representation. Now those same Fianna Fail and Green mob appear to be traitors to the name of modern Irish localised representation!
Those that stood in 1916 came from all walks of life, they came from various political backgrounds and organisations. They came to see that the shackles of an unwanted power to be gone. They wanted to be rid of a power that the vast majority, the Irish people, did not want, they stood and some cases died so that ALL - not just a special majority - could be represented by someone more close to home. They wanted to be rid of a power that was making laws and twisting laws to suit a special category at many times. They wanted to be rid of a system that was being abused for the convenience of those in power.
Regardless of what was in their minds for a future political Ireland if they had of succeeded that day (and they did in the long run I feel), they stood up and did so that all could be given a fair chance for decent representation by their own.
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it - and so it is today, we are where we are! Stuck with something unwanted, stuck with a power that is CLEARLY denying Irish people their fair representation, stuck with a power that will cling on for as long as possible BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY - even if that means dis-allowing the rights of Irish children in a referendum to be brought into law!
That is absolutely disgusting and those that are still teaching us history by making it in 1916 - are today turning in their graves!
They
who voted to deny others a right to vote, ought to be ashamed of themselves.
This country has reached a new low by their actions.
Amin' - Unitedpeople.ie
This country has reached a new low by their actions.
Amin' - Unitedpeople.ie
Additional news links:
Irish Independent - Click here
RTE News - Click here
Irish Independent - Click here
RTE News - Click here
Credit for the following goes to "Bostonorberlin" at www.thepropertypin.com and a reproduction of it on www.Boards.ie by "Lamintations"
MYTH - LIE - SPIN
We are all to blame, we are all to responsible, we all had our heads in the trough
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
2,000 individual loans make up the 77billion in toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
150 individuals are responsible for 50 billion of the toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
32 Billion of the bank bailout is belonging to just two banks,
chaired by two individuals who have since retired Michael Fingleton and Sean Fitzpatrick
There are just over 160 Members of Dail Eireann
There are 84 TDs in Government FF,Green,Independents
There are 81 TDs in Opposition
We have reached the Bottom (I) - Brian Lenihan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
He provides no report, countrywide analysis or figures to prove this, it is simply a soundbyte.
If we have hit the bottom then where are the buyers flooding the market.
Just as you cant call the top until after the fact, one cant call the bottom either
He is basing this on the rental yields on commercial property in Dublin, which is a small part, of one market in one city in Ireland,
Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Nenagh, Thurles, Cahir Borrisonossory, Clifden, etc.
Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in residential property, no evidence we have reached bottom in development land.
Some estate agent commentators still feel we have another 20% to fall.
And by all international standard house prices in Ireland are still over priced.
We have reached the bottom. (II)
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The governments own adviser contradicts this
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )Tuesday, September 16, 2008 Irish Times
Two conditions are necessary for a revival in exports: a rebound in economic activity abroad and
a substantial improvement in cost competitiveness at home AA Income tax rates will need to rise.
This projected path for economic activity looks implausible. Weak incoming data, a deteriorating outlook for growth abroad and
the scale of adjustment in the housing market that has still to take place point to significant contractions in GDP both this year and next.
The economy may stabilise in 2010 as the drag from new homebuilding fades, but we will probably have to wait until 2011 for a rebound to strong growth
House Prices have reached Bottom (III)
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Again the governments own adviser contradicts this and says we wont hit bottom until 2011
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )
The international experience of housing booms and busts shows that real (that is, inflation-adjusted) house prices typically decline for nearly five years following the peak.
Real house prices peaked in Ireland in the fourth quarter of 2006. Typically, house prices give up almost all of the gains recorded in the five years before the peak. That translates into a drop in real house prices here of about one third by 2011.
4-5 Years for Recessions and property crashes to run their course.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government is spinning that the property crash and recession has bottomed out as they only run 4-5 years.
The average length of recent recessions has been 6 years as per a recent Goldman Sachs report.
As this is an average who is to say the length of the recession in Ireland will not be at the extreme of this range.
If peak of the boom was late 2006. we have until late 2011 minimum, best case , late 2012 according to Goldman Sachs and sometime past late 2013 if we are on the wrong side of the average. Again BL still claims we have hit bottom.
If the recession has not run its course and could have legs fro a few more years how can the property market have already bottomed out.
If NAMA hasn’t turned a profit or broke even in 10 years, it means the country/economy hasn’t recovered and so NAMA is the least of our worries.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
If the country hasn’t recoverd NAMA and the bonds issued will still be an issue and have to be paid off.
And most likely NAMA, and the massive debt it has put on the country will be part of the reason why the country hasn’t recovered.
No cost to the tax payer
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
All government bonds are paid for by the Tax payer.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund current borrowing which is set to increase.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra borrowing required to pay for the 7 billion already given to the banks.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra interest rate on our current borrowing we are being charged on the international markets because the country is in such turmoil.
Outside of NAMA our borrowing is still increasing, all of which will cost the taxpayer.
Bank of Ireland has already received 3Billion Anglo 4 Billion.
Interest on bonds issued is only 1.5%.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
This is a variable Interest rate. The interest rate will be reset every 6 months and is based on ECB rates. So if ECB rates rise so too will the NAMA bond rates.
If ECB interest rates were to hit 4%, that would mean an extra 2 Billion in interest payments we would have to make to the BANKS who we gave the bonds to for their bad loans.
Experts have said long term ECB interest rates are forecast to increase and could be 3% in the medium to long term
We already own Anglo so the purchase of its loans can be ignored as its one hand of the Govt. paying another hand of the Govt.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
We have nationalized Anglo but we also pumped 4 Billion euro into it. 4 Billion Euro diverted from other parts of the state, 4 billion we ultimately had to borrow, 4 Billion we still have to pay back, 4 Billion we are paying interest on.
The 7 Billion Premium paid on the current market value was required to get the banks on board.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence to suggest the banks would not have taken a smaller premium or even none at all.
The market has responded, 30% jump in bank shares , it was the steal of the century and the banks and the markets know that.
All we need is a 10% jump in property prices for NAMA to work.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Its more like a 15% jump that would be required for NAMA to break even.
We are still in a falling market, if we fall for another year or two, then we may require a 18,20,25+% jump from that point to get us back to breaking even.
Plus its all pre-supposses we are at the bottom, but what if we are not and lots of international experts say we are not.
House Prices will increase and bring NAMA with it.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The ESRI and IMF have already forecast negative growth for next year. How are we going to get rising house prices in a falling contracting economy.
The NAMA model will recapitalize the bank
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Because the government have not released figures its not apparent this will in fact work.
This will not solve all banks issues they still hav to raise funding on the international markets. ‘The Economist’
In fact AIB have already said they will need to go to International markets for further funding of 2 Billion.
We have reached bottom, the economy will turn around and grow, house prices will increase (10%) all to the benefit of NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
To improve our competitiveness in a tougher global market we need prices in Ireland to fall more.
To improve Irelands competitiveness we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
To keep the jobs we have we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
All this will produce the opposite of rising house prices, it produces falling house prices, people have less money for a house.
Irelands economic recovery and NAMA breaking even are diametrically opposed.
The Long Term Economic Value of the bad loans NAMA is taking represents a good investment
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The govt seems to have based this statement on the rental yields in Dublin which is a just one commercial segment of the market, worth approx €8bn.
NAMA’s entire estimation of long-term value hinges on rents holding constant in this subset (Dublin) of a subset (commercial projects) of a subset (projects underway) of a subset (Ireland) of the total loan book.
The ECB is backing this plan and giving the Government or banks this money to buy the NAMA bonds
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The ECB does not buy Government bonds. The banks are using the bonds as collateral to go to the ECB and say we have Govt bonds therefore the ECB will lend to them.
The extent of the ECB guarantee only goes so far as it sets interest rates but the ECB has given no indication it will not raise ECB rates in he medium term, thereby making NAMA a much more expensive solution.
But at no time does the ECB take the bonds, the banks are left with the and could in fact sell them on the open market therby competing with our own NTMA bonds.
Government NAMA 54Billion versus Regular NTMA Govt Bonds
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government has given no analysis of what the impact the NAMA bonds will have on the regular NTMA bonds that the government will also be issuing in the coming years to fund our day to day expenses.
There is nothing in NAMA legislation to say what the banks have todo with the NAMA bonds.
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to stop the banks from selling NAMA bonds on the open market and therefore competing with NTMA bonds .
Fianna Fail will take the hard decisions.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
FF has a proven track record of letting the bankers and civil servants get off very lightly, golden parachutes etc…
FF has a track record during the boom of not taking the hard decisions.
FF has a proven record of giving every tax break possible to developers, stock market speculators, and builders
FF has a proven record of making very very bad regulatory decisions which got us into this mess.
Dublin Yields at an all time high and this suggests property values are bottoming out Brian Lenihan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is a law in this country that says commercial rents cannot be marked down. Many rents/yields are high only because the current tenant is not allowed by law to renegotiate the rent and get it lower. A new law allows for future leases not existing leases to have downward revisions.
The State is also propping up rental yields, paying 60m per year.
The Govt looking for lower rents and saving tax payers money is diametrically opposed to NAMA keeping rent high.
40% of commercial property is currently empty in some parts of Dublin.
Look around the city the place is awash with offices for rent
The IMF backs the NAMA model
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
IMF 2008 report has stated government backed asset management agencys do not work due to political and legal entanglements
NAMA will get credit flowing
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to FORCE Banks to start lending to ordinary people and SMEs
There is no evidence credit has started flowing yet in the UK and the US after their massive bailouts , in fact credit indexes are showing that credit is actually contracting .
Current Market Value is 47Billion
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Based on the opinions of many vested interests who have advised the Govt.
Based on the assumption theres is a market for these properties, but there is no evidence a market exists , if no market exists much of this property and land is actually worthless.
Also based on the assumption we have hit bottom.
This figure is pulled from the air. The Govt provides no figures or reports to back this claim up.
Market value assumptions seem to be just based on rent and yields in just the Dublin, which is a very vague amount.
If current market value is 47 Billion then why don’t the banks just sell the stuff for 47 Billion and they wouldn’t need any tax payer money.
GOVT open to other parties contributions
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Bank chiefs have worn out the rug going in and out to government building meeting with their friends in the Govt.
Bank chiefs were summoned to Leinster house in the days before NAMA at a time when other Govt parties were not allowed access to any of the details even though those parties promised non-disclosure of any info they were allowed to see.
We do not have time to debate this further its time to implement this plan to save the country.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government just spent the last 6 weeks on holidays , there is plenty time to debate and amend this legislation.
FF Spin, all the other alternatives would not work and would cost more
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many commentators , including Nobel laureates have stated other alternatives proposed by the opposition parties including temporary nationalization would not only be cheaper, less risky and also implement faster to get credit flowing.
Many economists have said other alternatives are better.
The Government is not doing any favours for its banking buddies.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Prior to the nationalization of Anglo, civil servants in the Dept. Of Finance had prepared a proposal to nationalize Anglo and wind it down.
The minister went against this and instead issued a blanket guarantee for Anglo.
Anglo Irish Bank was kept alive for 3 months after the Govt guarantee during which time significant bonuses were paid before it was nationalized.
The two chairmen of the Anglo and Irish Nationawide have been allowed walk away with massive payouts and pensions even though the tax payer is now buying bad loans from their banks for more than 30 Billion Suro.
Government is extracting retribution from the banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The Government didn’t enforce pay restraint on the banks when they had them over a barrel before writing the guarantee, nor
has they taken this opportunity now when we have a chance regarding the premium and is actually paying over the odds
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to control the executive pay or bonus culture at the banks which we are bailing out.
This is not a bank bailout
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Not worthy of a rebuttal, complete utter BS
The Government will pursue Developers for full repayment of loans & Govt does not believe developers assets are being hidden
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The is lots of documentary evidence, historical incidents to indicate most developers have already pocketed large reserves of cash and holdings off shore or transferred assetss to other family members or entities to evade Government acquisition.
For gods sake they do this during the boom time , of course they would be doing this during a downturn.
The government have not costed how much it will cost to pursue these assests.
The Government has been open and transparent
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Dated subordinated debt was guaranteed by the govt, in its blanket bank guarantee, with no explanation .
Why was this done, this type of debt is taken on with a risk, the investor knows theres a risk, yet the govt gave a guarantee .
The FF Government has already implemented overhaul of the banking industry
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Over 80% of Irish Banks board members have been in place since before 2008 .
There has been NO clearout of Irish Banks
There will be transpareny and legislation to prevent non-political interference
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Multiple sections of the NAMA legislation is to be at the direct discretion and exclusively by The Minister of Finance.
NAMA will not need much staffing as the banks will continue to manage the loans
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Huge legal issues exist here here as well as conflict of interest for bank employees in managing loans belonging to another institution ie. NAMA
Govt has admiteted recently it gave Rody Molloy 1.4 million so that he would not drag the state down the Four courts.
Think what 2000 Developers who are not happy with a valuation could cost the state in legal fees and time.
Rememebr the tribunals some of which are still stuck in legalese.
FF says other proposals involve TOTAL banking nationalisation
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many proposals inclunding Labours proposes temporary nationalization of the two main high street banks.
FF Says wholesale nationalisation of banks should be prevented at all costs as international markets will not lend to state owned banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence of this , and in fact lots of state owned banks do borrow on the international markets
We must avoid further Nationalisation at all costs
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many coutries have already nationalized large financial entities. Or taken much larger shareholding in the banks it did bailout. We have taken a paltry 25% in the banks we have bailed out.
NAMA is akin to the much vaunted Swedish model.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
NAMA is not like the Swedish Model. In the Swedish model there was much more temporary nationalisation
There was much more punitive measures in the legislation
There was a wholesale clearout of its banking executives.
The Govt, FF and Green Party says Irelands woes were caused by the collapse of Lehman brothers.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
If you need this explained as to why it is totally bull**** bogus spin then you shouldn’t be reading this .
Green Party party claim they have a proud record of standing up to vested interests.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
see item above
FF says it is taking every measure to prevent this form of financial corruption and financial irresponsibility from happening again.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
They and other politicians have said this many times before , remember Ansbacher , off shore accounts, DIRT retention, bank over-charging etc…
There is no evidence to support this in fact the evidence indicates the oppossite
There is no method to stop NAMA from going through.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The president has an alternative. Let the people decide for themselves, the constitution provides for the President referring the NAMA bill to a referendum, it being an issue of National importance
Current trading in Irish bank shares is small scale investors and purely speculative
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Ireland’s Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said trading in Irish banking shares is akin to a “bookie’s office operation” at the moment.
“The value of trading of these shares at this level is highly speculative,” Lenihan said in an interview with RTE radio today. “There has been very little institutional dealing in Irish bank shares.”
Lots of Bloc trades have been issued in recent days, some massive volumes including trades of 1.5m shares in one lot, and the vast majority were trades of blocs of 10k and over. Sure Lenny loads of grannies and day trading students.
This is a good deal for the TaxPayer
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
AIB and BOI have skyrocketed recently because the markets, stock brokers and investors know this is a great deal for the banks.
The NAMA haircut is between 35-40%
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
This may be the average but the bulk of the haircut is on Anglos loan book, the state already owns Anglo. Therefor its onw state body paying another state body. The real focus is what he other non-nationalised banks are gtting.
The haircut the other banks have had to take is very small given how toxic their loans were, in fact for AIB and BOI its 20% or lower.
The NAMA Haircut of 35-40% (20% for BOI and AIB) was a good deal
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Recently in the high court case involving Zoe and ACC/Rabobank it was accepted by both parties that the haircut on some property loans was in the region of 70-75%.
Recent receiver fire sales of properties have documented falls of over 60% as shown on a Primetime Special
20% haircut for AIB and BOI is not a good deal,
NAMA will Redevelop some Hotel properties
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Estimates are huge amounts of finished and unfinished hotel projects will come into NAMAs
Currently the Irish hotel industry is in its worst state ever. There is no need for one more hotel room in Ireland
The return on hotel investment is very low, we have over capacity in hotels.
25% Value of loans been taken over by NAMA were covered.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Its an acknowledged fact many developers used other properties as collateral for loans. This collateral is now worthless.
Many developers used other loans to finance larger loans… ie Borrow 1 million from one bank to get 10 million from another.
Many solicitors and developers have been found to have multiple mortgages taken out on the same properties, again worthless loans.
NAMA will Redevelop housing projects over the long term
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence to suggest we have ashortage of housing or will have a shortage of housing in the coming years.
In fact we will have net Emigration next year.
Waterford has 4,000 houses for sale
The Midlands is plagued with over supply and overzoning
International commentators are stating NAMA is the best model.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The main people saying NAMA is a good deal are DAVY, Bloxham, stockbrokers, AIB,BOI, and also the ex heads of these banks.
These are the main voices saying NAMA is a good deal. The same voices who got us into this mess.
The taxpayer is protected if NAMA does not work out
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no specific levy in this legislation should there be a downside for the taxpayer. There is only a provision for the Minister to ask for one if he decides at a future date we require one. That’s not protection for the taxpayer.
Real protection for the taxpayer would involve explicitly placing a levy in the legislation
We have to do our patriotic duty and swallow this biter pill
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Why did the government not ask the banks chiefs and FAS chairman who retired to do their patirotic duty and walk away from their pension pots and golden parachutes.
The ECONOMIST Magazine Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
“The Econmist has welcomed it in the sense that its finally doing something but they have also clearly stated who they see as benefiting best from NAMA and it isn’t the Tax payer. “
The government seems to have erred on the side of favouring shareholders, largely to minimise the amount of capital it would have to inject into the banks.
“The trouble is that the banks have run up such large losses that it will be lucky to achieve even two of its three objectives”
The Financial Timess Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
They have given a guarded welcome to the plan and only in the sense that the banks and markets have responded in a positive manner to the plan. The FT has not stated this is a good deal for the country or the tax payer.
"Property loans are only one problem facing Ireland’s recession-bound lenders"
NAMA will get development value out of the properties it is taking on
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
(The full breakdown is: land (36%), development (28%) and associated loans (36%), we have €21bn, or more than half accounted for, by land
This is the very same land that we have heard has been devalued by anything up to 95% from the peak, due to the probability of a good deal of land being rezoned to agricultural. It’s reasonable to assume that this land splits down in some way between that which probably will be developed (and which has presumably fallen in value by 50%), and that which probably won’t (likely down 90%).
NAMA Legislation will protect the NAMA agency form political interference.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Much of the NAMA legislation is very vague and allows for lots of decisions to be made at the exclusive whim of the Minister for Finance .
NAMA is akin to the all empowering PATRIOT Act that Bush pushed thru in the US
The government has driven a hard bargain with the Banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Interim director of NAMA Brendan McDonagh, said the number of loans the banks had earmarked for NAMA had increased significantly since the draft bill was published because banks had reassessed their books.
In two weeks, after the draft legislation the number of loans the banks wished to pass to the tax payer rose from 18,000 to 21,500.
Popular Media are behind NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The popular Irish Media, broadsheets and television got it drastically wrong during the boom equally these same entities and same persons in many cases will get it drastically wrong on this matter.
AIB BOI Bank Shares are up …we should celebrate
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
A few years back when bank shares were hitting 18 euro the media thought that was good for the country too, long term it has been PROVEN to be a false economy and of no long term benefit to the nation as a whole.
Trust FF and the government on NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
FF and the governemtn have gotten so many decisions, agencys , policys wrong they have a proven track record of ineptitude, incompetence and corruption over and over again.. This is another example
PPARS, e-Voting, FAS, Thornton hall, Section 23 hotel breaks, ministers expenses, rezoning, tribunals…etc etc
Not a gamble..
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Yes it is a gamble
The ECB have not had historical high interest rates
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Yes the ECB has had high interest rates and is forecast to have so in the medium to long term future
The government has given no analysis of the impact rising ECB interest rates will have on the cost of NAMA
NAMA will Manage property prices without political interference
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The state will become the largest property developer in the state and possibly the world. It will want prices to rise not fall and we all know that rising prices are not good .
The IMF recommends Governments do not artificially prop up house process, which is exactly what NAMA will have todo for it to work.
The NAMA Model is the cheapest bailout guarantee in the world
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Taken on a per head of population basis NAMA and the billions we have already put into the banks means NAMA is not the cheapest bailout , in fact its working out more expenseive than the US and UK Model.
And in the US and the UK they have taken larger (75-100%) ownership of some of the financial institutions they have bailed out.
MYTH - LIE - SPIN
We are all to blame, we are all to responsible, we all had our heads in the trough
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
2,000 individual loans make up the 77billion in toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
150 individuals are responsible for 50 billion of the toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
32 Billion of the bank bailout is belonging to just two banks,
chaired by two individuals who have since retired Michael Fingleton and Sean Fitzpatrick
There are just over 160 Members of Dail Eireann
There are 84 TDs in Government FF,Green,Independents
There are 81 TDs in Opposition
We have reached the Bottom (I) - Brian Lenihan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
He provides no report, countrywide analysis or figures to prove this, it is simply a soundbyte.
If we have hit the bottom then where are the buyers flooding the market.
Just as you cant call the top until after the fact, one cant call the bottom either
He is basing this on the rental yields on commercial property in Dublin, which is a small part, of one market in one city in Ireland,
Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Nenagh, Thurles, Cahir Borrisonossory, Clifden, etc.
Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in residential property, no evidence we have reached bottom in development land.
Some estate agent commentators still feel we have another 20% to fall.
And by all international standard house prices in Ireland are still over priced.
We have reached the bottom. (II)
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The governments own adviser contradicts this
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )Tuesday, September 16, 2008 Irish Times
Two conditions are necessary for a revival in exports: a rebound in economic activity abroad and
a substantial improvement in cost competitiveness at home AA Income tax rates will need to rise.
This projected path for economic activity looks implausible. Weak incoming data, a deteriorating outlook for growth abroad and
the scale of adjustment in the housing market that has still to take place point to significant contractions in GDP both this year and next.
The economy may stabilise in 2010 as the drag from new homebuilding fades, but we will probably have to wait until 2011 for a rebound to strong growth
House Prices have reached Bottom (III)
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Again the governments own adviser contradicts this and says we wont hit bottom until 2011
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )
The international experience of housing booms and busts shows that real (that is, inflation-adjusted) house prices typically decline for nearly five years following the peak.
Real house prices peaked in Ireland in the fourth quarter of 2006. Typically, house prices give up almost all of the gains recorded in the five years before the peak. That translates into a drop in real house prices here of about one third by 2011.
4-5 Years for Recessions and property crashes to run their course.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government is spinning that the property crash and recession has bottomed out as they only run 4-5 years.
The average length of recent recessions has been 6 years as per a recent Goldman Sachs report.
As this is an average who is to say the length of the recession in Ireland will not be at the extreme of this range.
If peak of the boom was late 2006. we have until late 2011 minimum, best case , late 2012 according to Goldman Sachs and sometime past late 2013 if we are on the wrong side of the average. Again BL still claims we have hit bottom.
If the recession has not run its course and could have legs fro a few more years how can the property market have already bottomed out.
If NAMA hasn’t turned a profit or broke even in 10 years, it means the country/economy hasn’t recovered and so NAMA is the least of our worries.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
If the country hasn’t recoverd NAMA and the bonds issued will still be an issue and have to be paid off.
And most likely NAMA, and the massive debt it has put on the country will be part of the reason why the country hasn’t recovered.
No cost to the tax payer
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
All government bonds are paid for by the Tax payer.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund current borrowing which is set to increase.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra borrowing required to pay for the 7 billion already given to the banks.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra interest rate on our current borrowing we are being charged on the international markets because the country is in such turmoil.
Outside of NAMA our borrowing is still increasing, all of which will cost the taxpayer.
Bank of Ireland has already received 3Billion Anglo 4 Billion.
Interest on bonds issued is only 1.5%.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
This is a variable Interest rate. The interest rate will be reset every 6 months and is based on ECB rates. So if ECB rates rise so too will the NAMA bond rates.
If ECB interest rates were to hit 4%, that would mean an extra 2 Billion in interest payments we would have to make to the BANKS who we gave the bonds to for their bad loans.
Experts have said long term ECB interest rates are forecast to increase and could be 3% in the medium to long term
We already own Anglo so the purchase of its loans can be ignored as its one hand of the Govt. paying another hand of the Govt.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
We have nationalized Anglo but we also pumped 4 Billion euro into it. 4 Billion Euro diverted from other parts of the state, 4 billion we ultimately had to borrow, 4 Billion we still have to pay back, 4 Billion we are paying interest on.
The 7 Billion Premium paid on the current market value was required to get the banks on board.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence to suggest the banks would not have taken a smaller premium or even none at all.
The market has responded, 30% jump in bank shares , it was the steal of the century and the banks and the markets know that.
All we need is a 10% jump in property prices for NAMA to work.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Its more like a 15% jump that would be required for NAMA to break even.
We are still in a falling market, if we fall for another year or two, then we may require a 18,20,25+% jump from that point to get us back to breaking even.
Plus its all pre-supposses we are at the bottom, but what if we are not and lots of international experts say we are not.
House Prices will increase and bring NAMA with it.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The ESRI and IMF have already forecast negative growth for next year. How are we going to get rising house prices in a falling contracting economy.
The NAMA model will recapitalize the bank
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Because the government have not released figures its not apparent this will in fact work.
This will not solve all banks issues they still hav to raise funding on the international markets. ‘The Economist’
In fact AIB have already said they will need to go to International markets for further funding of 2 Billion.
We have reached bottom, the economy will turn around and grow, house prices will increase (10%) all to the benefit of NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
To improve our competitiveness in a tougher global market we need prices in Ireland to fall more.
To improve Irelands competitiveness we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
To keep the jobs we have we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
All this will produce the opposite of rising house prices, it produces falling house prices, people have less money for a house.
Irelands economic recovery and NAMA breaking even are diametrically opposed.
The Long Term Economic Value of the bad loans NAMA is taking represents a good investment
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The govt seems to have based this statement on the rental yields in Dublin which is a just one commercial segment of the market, worth approx €8bn.
NAMA’s entire estimation of long-term value hinges on rents holding constant in this subset (Dublin) of a subset (commercial projects) of a subset (projects underway) of a subset (Ireland) of the total loan book.
The ECB is backing this plan and giving the Government or banks this money to buy the NAMA bonds
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The ECB does not buy Government bonds. The banks are using the bonds as collateral to go to the ECB and say we have Govt bonds therefore the ECB will lend to them.
The extent of the ECB guarantee only goes so far as it sets interest rates but the ECB has given no indication it will not raise ECB rates in he medium term, thereby making NAMA a much more expensive solution.
But at no time does the ECB take the bonds, the banks are left with the and could in fact sell them on the open market therby competing with our own NTMA bonds.
Government NAMA 54Billion versus Regular NTMA Govt Bonds
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government has given no analysis of what the impact the NAMA bonds will have on the regular NTMA bonds that the government will also be issuing in the coming years to fund our day to day expenses.
There is nothing in NAMA legislation to say what the banks have todo with the NAMA bonds.
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to stop the banks from selling NAMA bonds on the open market and therefore competing with NTMA bonds .
Fianna Fail will take the hard decisions.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
FF has a proven track record of letting the bankers and civil servants get off very lightly, golden parachutes etc…
FF has a track record during the boom of not taking the hard decisions.
FF has a proven record of giving every tax break possible to developers, stock market speculators, and builders
FF has a proven record of making very very bad regulatory decisions which got us into this mess.
Dublin Yields at an all time high and this suggests property values are bottoming out Brian Lenihan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is a law in this country that says commercial rents cannot be marked down. Many rents/yields are high only because the current tenant is not allowed by law to renegotiate the rent and get it lower. A new law allows for future leases not existing leases to have downward revisions.
The State is also propping up rental yields, paying 60m per year.
The Govt looking for lower rents and saving tax payers money is diametrically opposed to NAMA keeping rent high.
40% of commercial property is currently empty in some parts of Dublin.
Look around the city the place is awash with offices for rent
The IMF backs the NAMA model
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
IMF 2008 report has stated government backed asset management agencys do not work due to political and legal entanglements
NAMA will get credit flowing
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to FORCE Banks to start lending to ordinary people and SMEs
There is no evidence credit has started flowing yet in the UK and the US after their massive bailouts , in fact credit indexes are showing that credit is actually contracting .
Current Market Value is 47Billion
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Based on the opinions of many vested interests who have advised the Govt.
Based on the assumption theres is a market for these properties, but there is no evidence a market exists , if no market exists much of this property and land is actually worthless.
Also based on the assumption we have hit bottom.
This figure is pulled from the air. The Govt provides no figures or reports to back this claim up.
Market value assumptions seem to be just based on rent and yields in just the Dublin, which is a very vague amount.
If current market value is 47 Billion then why don’t the banks just sell the stuff for 47 Billion and they wouldn’t need any tax payer money.
GOVT open to other parties contributions
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Bank chiefs have worn out the rug going in and out to government building meeting with their friends in the Govt.
Bank chiefs were summoned to Leinster house in the days before NAMA at a time when other Govt parties were not allowed access to any of the details even though those parties promised non-disclosure of any info they were allowed to see.
We do not have time to debate this further its time to implement this plan to save the country.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The government just spent the last 6 weeks on holidays , there is plenty time to debate and amend this legislation.
FF Spin, all the other alternatives would not work and would cost more
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many commentators , including Nobel laureates have stated other alternatives proposed by the opposition parties including temporary nationalization would not only be cheaper, less risky and also implement faster to get credit flowing.
Many economists have said other alternatives are better.
The Government is not doing any favours for its banking buddies.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Prior to the nationalization of Anglo, civil servants in the Dept. Of Finance had prepared a proposal to nationalize Anglo and wind it down.
The minister went against this and instead issued a blanket guarantee for Anglo.
Anglo Irish Bank was kept alive for 3 months after the Govt guarantee during which time significant bonuses were paid before it was nationalized.
The two chairmen of the Anglo and Irish Nationawide have been allowed walk away with massive payouts and pensions even though the tax payer is now buying bad loans from their banks for more than 30 Billion Suro.
Government is extracting retribution from the banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The Government didn’t enforce pay restraint on the banks when they had them over a barrel before writing the guarantee, nor
has they taken this opportunity now when we have a chance regarding the premium and is actually paying over the odds
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to control the executive pay or bonus culture at the banks which we are bailing out.
This is not a bank bailout
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Not worthy of a rebuttal, complete utter BS
The Government will pursue Developers for full repayment of loans & Govt does not believe developers assets are being hidden
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The is lots of documentary evidence, historical incidents to indicate most developers have already pocketed large reserves of cash and holdings off shore or transferred assetss to other family members or entities to evade Government acquisition.
For gods sake they do this during the boom time , of course they would be doing this during a downturn.
The government have not costed how much it will cost to pursue these assests.
The Government has been open and transparent
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Dated subordinated debt was guaranteed by the govt, in its blanket bank guarantee, with no explanation .
Why was this done, this type of debt is taken on with a risk, the investor knows theres a risk, yet the govt gave a guarantee .
The FF Government has already implemented overhaul of the banking industry
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Over 80% of Irish Banks board members have been in place since before 2008 .
There has been NO clearout of Irish Banks
There will be transpareny and legislation to prevent non-political interference
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Multiple sections of the NAMA legislation is to be at the direct discretion and exclusively by The Minister of Finance.
NAMA will not need much staffing as the banks will continue to manage the loans
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Huge legal issues exist here here as well as conflict of interest for bank employees in managing loans belonging to another institution ie. NAMA
Govt has admiteted recently it gave Rody Molloy 1.4 million so that he would not drag the state down the Four courts.
Think what 2000 Developers who are not happy with a valuation could cost the state in legal fees and time.
Rememebr the tribunals some of which are still stuck in legalese.
FF says other proposals involve TOTAL banking nationalisation
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many proposals inclunding Labours proposes temporary nationalization of the two main high street banks.
FF Says wholesale nationalisation of banks should be prevented at all costs as international markets will not lend to state owned banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence of this , and in fact lots of state owned banks do borrow on the international markets
We must avoid further Nationalisation at all costs
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Many coutries have already nationalized large financial entities. Or taken much larger shareholding in the banks it did bailout. We have taken a paltry 25% in the banks we have bailed out.
NAMA is akin to the much vaunted Swedish model.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
NAMA is not like the Swedish Model. In the Swedish model there was much more temporary nationalisation
There was much more punitive measures in the legislation
There was a wholesale clearout of its banking executives.
The Govt, FF and Green Party says Irelands woes were caused by the collapse of Lehman brothers.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
If you need this explained as to why it is totally bull**** bogus spin then you shouldn’t be reading this .
Green Party party claim they have a proud record of standing up to vested interests.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
see item above
FF says it is taking every measure to prevent this form of financial corruption and financial irresponsibility from happening again.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
They and other politicians have said this many times before , remember Ansbacher , off shore accounts, DIRT retention, bank over-charging etc…
There is no evidence to support this in fact the evidence indicates the oppossite
There is no method to stop NAMA from going through.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The president has an alternative. Let the people decide for themselves, the constitution provides for the President referring the NAMA bill to a referendum, it being an issue of National importance
Current trading in Irish bank shares is small scale investors and purely speculative
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Ireland’s Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said trading in Irish banking shares is akin to a “bookie’s office operation” at the moment.
“The value of trading of these shares at this level is highly speculative,” Lenihan said in an interview with RTE radio today. “There has been very little institutional dealing in Irish bank shares.”
Lots of Bloc trades have been issued in recent days, some massive volumes including trades of 1.5m shares in one lot, and the vast majority were trades of blocs of 10k and over. Sure Lenny loads of grannies and day trading students.
This is a good deal for the TaxPayer
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
AIB and BOI have skyrocketed recently because the markets, stock brokers and investors know this is a great deal for the banks.
The NAMA haircut is between 35-40%
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
This may be the average but the bulk of the haircut is on Anglos loan book, the state already owns Anglo. Therefor its onw state body paying another state body. The real focus is what he other non-nationalised banks are gtting.
The haircut the other banks have had to take is very small given how toxic their loans were, in fact for AIB and BOI its 20% or lower.
The NAMA Haircut of 35-40% (20% for BOI and AIB) was a good deal
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Recently in the high court case involving Zoe and ACC/Rabobank it was accepted by both parties that the haircut on some property loans was in the region of 70-75%.
Recent receiver fire sales of properties have documented falls of over 60% as shown on a Primetime Special
20% haircut for AIB and BOI is not a good deal,
NAMA will Redevelop some Hotel properties
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Estimates are huge amounts of finished and unfinished hotel projects will come into NAMAs
Currently the Irish hotel industry is in its worst state ever. There is no need for one more hotel room in Ireland
The return on hotel investment is very low, we have over capacity in hotels.
25% Value of loans been taken over by NAMA were covered.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Its an acknowledged fact many developers used other properties as collateral for loans. This collateral is now worthless.
Many developers used other loans to finance larger loans… ie Borrow 1 million from one bank to get 10 million from another.
Many solicitors and developers have been found to have multiple mortgages taken out on the same properties, again worthless loans.
NAMA will Redevelop housing projects over the long term
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no evidence to suggest we have ashortage of housing or will have a shortage of housing in the coming years.
In fact we will have net Emigration next year.
Waterford has 4,000 houses for sale
The Midlands is plagued with over supply and overzoning
International commentators are stating NAMA is the best model.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The main people saying NAMA is a good deal are DAVY, Bloxham, stockbrokers, AIB,BOI, and also the ex heads of these banks.
These are the main voices saying NAMA is a good deal. The same voices who got us into this mess.
The taxpayer is protected if NAMA does not work out
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
There is no specific levy in this legislation should there be a downside for the taxpayer. There is only a provision for the Minister to ask for one if he decides at a future date we require one. That’s not protection for the taxpayer.
Real protection for the taxpayer would involve explicitly placing a levy in the legislation
We have to do our patriotic duty and swallow this biter pill
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Why did the government not ask the banks chiefs and FAS chairman who retired to do their patirotic duty and walk away from their pension pots and golden parachutes.
The ECONOMIST Magazine Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
“The Econmist has welcomed it in the sense that its finally doing something but they have also clearly stated who they see as benefiting best from NAMA and it isn’t the Tax payer. “
The government seems to have erred on the side of favouring shareholders, largely to minimise the amount of capital it would have to inject into the banks.
“The trouble is that the banks have run up such large losses that it will be lucky to achieve even two of its three objectives”
The Financial Timess Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
They have given a guarded welcome to the plan and only in the sense that the banks and markets have responded in a positive manner to the plan. The FT has not stated this is a good deal for the country or the tax payer.
"Property loans are only one problem facing Ireland’s recession-bound lenders"
NAMA will get development value out of the properties it is taking on
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
(The full breakdown is: land (36%), development (28%) and associated loans (36%), we have €21bn, or more than half accounted for, by land
This is the very same land that we have heard has been devalued by anything up to 95% from the peak, due to the probability of a good deal of land being rezoned to agricultural. It’s reasonable to assume that this land splits down in some way between that which probably will be developed (and which has presumably fallen in value by 50%), and that which probably won’t (likely down 90%).
NAMA Legislation will protect the NAMA agency form political interference.
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Much of the NAMA legislation is very vague and allows for lots of decisions to be made at the exclusive whim of the Minister for Finance .
NAMA is akin to the all empowering PATRIOT Act that Bush pushed thru in the US
The government has driven a hard bargain with the Banks
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Interim director of NAMA Brendan McDonagh, said the number of loans the banks had earmarked for NAMA had increased significantly since the draft bill was published because banks had reassessed their books.
In two weeks, after the draft legislation the number of loans the banks wished to pass to the tax payer rose from 18,000 to 21,500.
Popular Media are behind NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The popular Irish Media, broadsheets and television got it drastically wrong during the boom equally these same entities and same persons in many cases will get it drastically wrong on this matter.
AIB BOI Bank Shares are up …we should celebrate
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
A few years back when bank shares were hitting 18 euro the media thought that was good for the country too, long term it has been PROVEN to be a false economy and of no long term benefit to the nation as a whole.
Trust FF and the government on NAMA
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
FF and the governemtn have gotten so many decisions, agencys , policys wrong they have a proven track record of ineptitude, incompetence and corruption over and over again.. This is another example
PPARS, e-Voting, FAS, Thornton hall, Section 23 hotel breaks, ministers expenses, rezoning, tribunals…etc etc
Not a gamble..
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Yes it is a gamble
The ECB have not had historical high interest rates
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Yes the ECB has had high interest rates and is forecast to have so in the medium to long term future
The government has given no analysis of the impact rising ECB interest rates will have on the cost of NAMA
NAMA will Manage property prices without political interference
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
The state will become the largest property developer in the state and possibly the world. It will want prices to rise not fall and we all know that rising prices are not good .
The IMF recommends Governments do not artificially prop up house process, which is exactly what NAMA will have todo for it to work.
The NAMA Model is the cheapest bailout guarantee in the world
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
Taken on a per head of population basis NAMA and the billions we have already put into the banks means NAMA is not the cheapest bailout , in fact its working out more expenseive than the US and UK Model.
And in the US and the UK they have taken larger (75-100%) ownership of some of the financial institutions they have bailed out.
-----------------------------------------
A Decade Of Fianna Fail Failures (and a few years of the Greens too!)
- Failure to implement the reforms incorporated. www.oneinfour.org/uploads/ferns.pdf -
- Failure to go after the many of those directly responsible. The question needs to be asked – WHY?
- Failure (deliberately?) to go after those that knew of the crimes being committed and their cover-up. The 720-page report said that it has "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up" from January 1975 to May 2004. As charted by the Murphy commission, the complaints of parents and their children were ignored and other families placed in immediate danger as prelates from John Charles McQuaid onwards suppressed scandals and took refuge in canon law to protect offenders at the expense of innocent children. The vast majority of uninvolved priests turned a blind eye
- Failure to hold fully accountable the institutions financially for their crimes – instead the state pays up! The religious organisations are allowed only to donate a minority percentage!
- Failure to investigate the Gardi lack of response and STILL unwilling to do so and hold those responsible, accountable. "Twenty detectives have been assigned to the so-called 'God Squad' since 2002. But despite evidence that priests were transferred to other parishes, where they continued to abuse, and despite public admissions by senior figures that not all relevant information was passed to the civil authorities, no charges will NOT be laid against senior members of the church."
- Failure to separate Church from state schools. The current Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has said it was not within his remit to decide if religious organisations should be distanced from schools. If the minister for education can't control over what governs his schools - WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING IN HIS OVER PAID POSITION? If he is such an incompetent fool not able to control his own education department - why the hell is the state still paying to have his sorry useless ass in the top seat?
- Failure and CURRENTLY STILL stalling any further investigations outside of Dublin, into other many cases of religious abuses. Are Fianna Fail are hoping the public interest will die and they can quietly shelve such investigation? Many suspect so...
- Failure of Fianna Fail and its head, Brian Cowen to visibly on our TV screens, radio, in the Dail to stand up, come out and take on the Catholic church and its Bishops over the past abuses and the current one which they still have not given full disclosure about.
- Failure to go after the heards of the Roman Catholic organisation that has allowed a KNOWN 1000 perverts (See http://bishopaccountability.org/) to flow into our country, hide here, stay here and work amid the public. A number of these which was brought in on forged passports!!! Where did the Irish Church get the passports? How much did the government quietly know and why are they still unwilling to investigate this? Are they waiting for all the possible Irish heads of religious organisations (possible culpable lying, report hiding, burying criminals) to die off so they can claim that there is no one left to go after? Why are they not only stalling but doing absolutely nothing!
- Failure to go after the many of those directly responsible. The question needs to be asked – WHY?
- Failure (deliberately?) to go after those that knew of the crimes being committed and their cover-up. The 720-page report said that it has "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up" from January 1975 to May 2004. As charted by the Murphy commission, the complaints of parents and their children were ignored and other families placed in immediate danger as prelates from John Charles McQuaid onwards suppressed scandals and took refuge in canon law to protect offenders at the expense of innocent children. The vast majority of uninvolved priests turned a blind eye
- Failure to hold fully accountable the institutions financially for their crimes – instead the state pays up! The religious organisations are allowed only to donate a minority percentage!
- Failure to investigate the Gardi lack of response and STILL unwilling to do so and hold those responsible, accountable. "Twenty detectives have been assigned to the so-called 'God Squad' since 2002. But despite evidence that priests were transferred to other parishes, where they continued to abuse, and despite public admissions by senior figures that not all relevant information was passed to the civil authorities, no charges will NOT be laid against senior members of the church."
- Failure to separate Church from state schools. The current Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has said it was not within his remit to decide if religious organisations should be distanced from schools. If the minister for education can't control over what governs his schools - WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING IN HIS OVER PAID POSITION? If he is such an incompetent fool not able to control his own education department - why the hell is the state still paying to have his sorry useless ass in the top seat?
- Failure and CURRENTLY STILL stalling any further investigations outside of Dublin, into other many cases of religious abuses. Are Fianna Fail are hoping the public interest will die and they can quietly shelve such investigation? Many suspect so...
- Failure of Fianna Fail and its head, Brian Cowen to visibly on our TV screens, radio, in the Dail to stand up, come out and take on the Catholic church and its Bishops over the past abuses and the current one which they still have not given full disclosure about.
- Failure to go after the heards of the Roman Catholic organisation that has allowed a KNOWN 1000 perverts (See http://bishopaccountability.org/) to flow into our country, hide here, stay here and work amid the public. A number of these which was brought in on forged passports!!! Where did the Irish Church get the passports? How much did the government quietly know and why are they still unwilling to investigate this? Are they waiting for all the possible Irish heads of religious organisations (possible culpable lying, report hiding, burying criminals) to die off so they can claim that there is no one left to go after? Why are they not only stalling but doing absolutely nothing!
Banking sector:
- Failure to control the banking regulations and regulators.
- Failure to expose the "Golden Circle" and all those involved. Afraid of exposing your own there lads???
- Failure to give the banking regulators the necessary powers to do their job. Why? Is this because some of the banks were giving paperless loans (loans?) to Fianna Fail members and friends including Charlie McCrevey and a Ahern? Also Fianna Fail senator Francie O'Brien received more than €7m from the building society, while former Fianna Fail senator Don Lydon was granted a €3m loan. Sean McCarthy, a Fianna Fail councillor, had also received more than €300,000 with minimum paperwork.
- Failure and still unwilling to hold an enquiry in to the goings on of the Irish major banks. Mr Cowen is still unwilling and is stalling, putting any decision on the long finger, despite calls from retiring Financial Services Ombudsman Joe Meade and Central Bank governor Patrick Honohan.
- Failure to hold Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide accountable (looking after friends?). Instead he got a nice handsome payoff for the rest of his life. Failing STILL to hold Michael Fingleton accountable for a controversial €1m bonus, despite promising to do so eight months ago.
- Failure to tackle and investigate the bank regulator Patrick Neary, who was found not to have been doing his job for a decade, while Sean FitzPatrick hid scores of millions a year from Anglo Irish Bank. He was allowed to take early retirement, with a tax-free golden handshake worth about €400,000 and a pension of €140,000!!!
- Failure to explain and justify the huge losses of NAMA which is coming, that A LOT of non-government international qualified recognised businessmen and accountants has stated, will happen.
- Failure to explain just why the same bankers that are still personally being rewarded – are some of the same ones that created the mess and why in gods name do they still hold banking positions if they are so stupid in the first place!
- Failure to explain why the Irish banks are still screwing the public on their mortgages Thursday 3rd September, the ECB (European Central Bank) announced that it was freezing it’s interest rates for a whole year across Europe at just 1%. This means that mortgage holders should expect to hold onto their record low interest payments. However Irish individual banks are not treating their home customers in the same fashion, their rates are being increased, the frozen rates is not being passed on to them. Customers are advised by the ECB to move their mortgage elsewhere if possible or at least start asking questions at their bank and Irish politicians! The ECB is freezing its rates till September 2010
- Failure to explain why those within the new NAMA body, people have been silenced by state secrecy and censorship orders laid down. See the following article: http://i29.tinypic.com/23j5nvt.jpg and http://i25.tinypic.com/25iluld.jpg. Between that and the NAMA mess (and disaster to come) where they didn't allow for those already in financial trouble - See: http://i27.tinypic.com/14uchhu.jpg
Money Matters
- Failure to hold Bertie Ahern accountable for the huge tax he owes to the state. He is
STILL “in negotiation” with the revenue commissioners after four years of mysterious stalling and possibly hoping
the matter will quietly die away out of the public eye. He still owes hundreds of thousands despite still receiving a current
state Taoiseach’s pension, is still allowed to hold a TD position and still gain a full elected TD employed wage with
huge state perks including, state allowances, state transport, etc... On top of this he works for a media newspaper, hold
directorships on a number of companies which includes HUGE wage payments for such positions.
- Failure to explain why Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe.
- Failure to explain the M50 orbital road around Dublin, which crosses over the Liffey valley. The State decided to build the motorway on either side of the valley, but handed the construction of the connecting bridge, with toll rights, to a private company, the National Toll Roads. In addition to enabling NTR to make hundreds of millions from an entirely captive driving community, the actual process of collecting tolls was so inefficient that it caused huge traffic jams.
- Failure to further investigate Mr Ahern and his many questionable accounting practises, monetary gains and their even more questionable sources.
- Failure to investigate Rody Molloy in FAS who, after massive abuse of his position, was also allowed to take early retirement, with a golden handshake, plus full pension.
- Failure to hold an investigation into the retired directors general from the civil service whose pensions are now worth more than their salaries when they were working, but were not subject to any of the income reductions being imposed on junior civil servants, whose incomes are down by some 15pc in a year and who are now spiralling towards ruin.
- Failure to hold RTE accountable for the HUGE wages they are paying their big so called stars and directors.
- Failure to investigate how they can set themselves up as “limited companies” (!!!) and use this status to avoid paying tax at the proper state rates like the rest of us mere Irish mortals! Failure to tackle this form of tax evasion – bordering on tax fraud and why STILL no changes to the current tax laws are not being implemented!
- Failure to combat the cross border shopping fiasco and the underlying reasons for it and failure to take appropriate steps to incentivise shoppers to stay this side of the border.
- Failure to tighten the fees being charged by the likes of Ryanair for simply paying for their services. We are being billed for being credit card billed and paying for fucks sake!
- Failure to explain why Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe.
- Failure to explain the M50 orbital road around Dublin, which crosses over the Liffey valley. The State decided to build the motorway on either side of the valley, but handed the construction of the connecting bridge, with toll rights, to a private company, the National Toll Roads. In addition to enabling NTR to make hundreds of millions from an entirely captive driving community, the actual process of collecting tolls was so inefficient that it caused huge traffic jams.
- Failure to further investigate Mr Ahern and his many questionable accounting practises, monetary gains and their even more questionable sources.
- Failure to investigate Rody Molloy in FAS who, after massive abuse of his position, was also allowed to take early retirement, with a golden handshake, plus full pension.
- Failure to hold an investigation into the retired directors general from the civil service whose pensions are now worth more than their salaries when they were working, but were not subject to any of the income reductions being imposed on junior civil servants, whose incomes are down by some 15pc in a year and who are now spiralling towards ruin.
- Failure to hold RTE accountable for the HUGE wages they are paying their big so called stars and directors.
- Failure to investigate how they can set themselves up as “limited companies” (!!!) and use this status to avoid paying tax at the proper state rates like the rest of us mere Irish mortals! Failure to tackle this form of tax evasion – bordering on tax fraud and why STILL no changes to the current tax laws are not being implemented!
- Failure to combat the cross border shopping fiasco and the underlying reasons for it and failure to take appropriate steps to incentivise shoppers to stay this side of the border.
- Failure to tighten the fees being charged by the likes of Ryanair for simply paying for their services. We are being billed for being credit card billed and paying for fucks sake!
The Health Service
-
Listed the second worst in Europe after Lithuania!
- Failure to explain how the hell they got it so wrong - even after 24 years of power!
- Failure to explain why the hell Harney is still in charge!
- Failure to explain how when the celtic tiger was roaring, they from the start fucked up so completely with monetary funding and help!
- Failure to support services enough, ones that are still on their knees and regarded by the rest of the world in some cases as the same standard to be found in a third world country!
- Failure to justify how they, Fianna Fail can in one week spend 10 MILLION euro on a bike track through Dublin (was it as the time an attempt to buy and keep the support of the Greens at their crucial RDS vote?) yet two weeks earlier, refuse to fund a NATIONAL children's hospital with a slightly less amount, that had to close wards, services and theaters due to lack of supposed money being available?
- Failure to explain the thousands of streachers lining corridors of hospitals throughout the country that are filled with patients - while wards are closed within the same buildings alone!
- Failure to explain how the hell they got it so wrong - even after 24 years of power!
- Failure to explain why the hell Harney is still in charge!
- Failure to explain how when the celtic tiger was roaring, they from the start fucked up so completely with monetary funding and help!
- Failure to support services enough, ones that are still on their knees and regarded by the rest of the world in some cases as the same standard to be found in a third world country!
- Failure to justify how they, Fianna Fail can in one week spend 10 MILLION euro on a bike track through Dublin (was it as the time an attempt to buy and keep the support of the Greens at their crucial RDS vote?) yet two weeks earlier, refuse to fund a NATIONAL children's hospital with a slightly less amount, that had to close wards, services and theaters due to lack of supposed money being available?
- Failure to explain the thousands of streachers lining corridors of hospitals throughout the country that are filled with patients - while wards are closed within the same buildings alone!
Dail Matters
- Failure or unwillingness to talk about the 600,000
people that has moved to Ireland in 15 years, but has never once discussed immigration and its effect on the country and the
ongoing situation!
- Failure to regain back ANY of the money squandered by John O'Donoghue and how he still holds his elected seat!
- Failure to currently tackle the current unwilling TD who outright refuse to use a modern day function of locking-in so that better attendance records can be kept in line with fire regulations to begin with! I wonder why they don’t want on better record just how long each one actually stays in the Dail to do their elected job there! I wonder why...himmmmm!!!
- Failure and unwillingness to tackle Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea on the lying public statements he made in an interview with a journalist from the Limerick Chronicle on March 10th, 2009.
- Failure to explain how in gods name is independent TDs getting HUGE wages and perks. For example; Jackie Healy Rea who for his Fianna Fail loyalty, is handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totaled €289,769! plus expenses averaging yearly from €68,000 to €89,000. See for example: http://i32.tinypic.com/256wso2.jpg
- Failure to explain lack of department cuts but in fact can help themselves to a wine cellar at the department of Foreign Affairs: http://i29.tinypic.com/2u4szzc.jpg
- Failure to explain (I wonder why!) why so many sitting TD's are earning not only their TD Salary but also a ministerial pension as well as full wages for teaching positions that are currently “on hold” for them - some as long as 15 years “on hold”. Meanwhile Ahern again, being an example with his ex-taoiseach and ex-minister pensions and perks (his attendance record since stepping down is one of the lowest in the Dail). What has happened to getting your pension when you retire?
- Failure to explain why a Mr Tom Higgins, a highly respected chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission's audit committee had to dramatically quit after repeated lack of action and ignorance by TDs to see through reform on their expenses and wages. He was left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves. Mr O'Higgins, a former senior partner at accountants PriceWaterhouse Coopers with absolute strong international credentials, had favoured the introduction of vouched expenses for TDs and senators. He also believes there should be an annual cap on the amount of expenses any TD or senator can pocket under particular categories. Irelands TDs however in a blatant show of hatred for his reforms have been and STILLL ARE ignoring him, the department under him and under its current head and the blanking proposals they have put forth for years.
- Failure to regain back ANY of the money squandered by John O'Donoghue and how he still holds his elected seat!
- Failure to currently tackle the current unwilling TD who outright refuse to use a modern day function of locking-in so that better attendance records can be kept in line with fire regulations to begin with! I wonder why they don’t want on better record just how long each one actually stays in the Dail to do their elected job there! I wonder why...himmmmm!!!
- Failure and unwillingness to tackle Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea on the lying public statements he made in an interview with a journalist from the Limerick Chronicle on March 10th, 2009.
- Failure to explain how in gods name is independent TDs getting HUGE wages and perks. For example; Jackie Healy Rea who for his Fianna Fail loyalty, is handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totaled €289,769! plus expenses averaging yearly from €68,000 to €89,000. See for example: http://i32.tinypic.com/256wso2.jpg
- Failure to explain lack of department cuts but in fact can help themselves to a wine cellar at the department of Foreign Affairs: http://i29.tinypic.com/2u4szzc.jpg
- Failure to explain (I wonder why!) why so many sitting TD's are earning not only their TD Salary but also a ministerial pension as well as full wages for teaching positions that are currently “on hold” for them - some as long as 15 years “on hold”. Meanwhile Ahern again, being an example with his ex-taoiseach and ex-minister pensions and perks (his attendance record since stepping down is one of the lowest in the Dail). What has happened to getting your pension when you retire?
- Failure to explain why a Mr Tom Higgins, a highly respected chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission's audit committee had to dramatically quit after repeated lack of action and ignorance by TDs to see through reform on their expenses and wages. He was left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves. Mr O'Higgins, a former senior partner at accountants PriceWaterhouse Coopers with absolute strong international credentials, had favoured the introduction of vouched expenses for TDs and senators. He also believes there should be an annual cap on the amount of expenses any TD or senator can pocket under particular categories. Irelands TDs however in a blatant show of hatred for his reforms have been and STILLL ARE ignoring him, the department under him and under its current head and the blanking proposals they have put forth for years.
State issues:
- Failure to tackle the unions and their stranglehold over the TDs, allowing them to get whatever the hell they want in the long run.
- Failure to tackle serious crime. Failure to stop the current prison system from turning into near unofficial holiday camps for some criminals. Flatscreen tv’s, weight gyms, games rooms, phones, drugs available at will, etc...
- Failure to re-change the current process related to freedom of information. For example, before the fiasco started about the many state perks abused by many of our politicians, any person could gain information on their TD with a small nominal charge and a bulk of paper in response. NOW, if you apply for information the price for any single document starts at the mid €550 range and you get if you’re lucky, three pages of summarised words with the bulk of the actual detail left out! They are making it harder to gain information on your local and state representives – and just exactly what they are getting up to in our name.
- Failure to tackle social welfare fraud, internal and across order areas. Failure to tackle the PPS fraud that is robbing the state of millions per year, Failure totally of any system to recuperate the money stolen by fraud claims, from those responsible.
Then there is the just plain
stupid!
- Failure to explain why it took 15 YEARS!!! for the Government to announce - again after 15 straight winters and half the country vanishing under a midwinter flood - that it is only now inviting tenders for a feasibility study into the merits of a national flood warning system!
- Failure to put a stop to the hundreds of puppy farms
throughout our country and bring an end to the terrible international reputation Ireland has gained in the relms of animal
cruelty.
- Why the cabinet spin kings and PR people for the government got/ is getting a 100% payrise! See: http://tinypic.com/r/30mlou9/6
- Failure to explain why they allowed Dublin council to rule that all place names in the capital must now be spelt
in Irish only, with Irish spelling, in a city in which almost no one regularly converses in the language. Moreover, why Irish
still is a compulsory and universal subject at school, rather like English is in Germany, but almost no one speaks the language
across the entire country!
- Failure to justify why when thief Haughey died, having stolen from the state for decades
left, right and centre, was still given a state funeral – jeasus, some muppets even have erected a statue!
- Failure to explain why for a country that outside of America, produces a hell of the world manufactured software,
has yet to implement ANY proper working broadband system throughout the country from east to west!
- Failure to
explain in ANY way shape or form to the blind, why Fianna Fail is still looking after the banks and their directors with payoffs
– while the blind in this country is having their blind allowances cut and their support services!
- Failure
to justify when we are in dire straits, why we are still going to spend €10 million on a Dublin cycle track! Announced
(7th/02/09) by Mr Noel Demsey, word is that it’s still going ahead! See: http://tinypic.com/r/24q0euh/6
- Failure to hold not one, not two but three by-elections, a referendum on childrens rights, on fathers rights
... but hell, we can rush laws in to cut out some less damaging substances (ratio-wise) than alcohol!
Being constantly updated - please return for the rest - which there is a a lot more sadly!
| THE HEAD OF A ROTTEN GANG | |||||||||
|
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A spineless national disgrace
to Irish democracy
and full representation allowed to all?
A dictator in all but name!
and full representation allowed to all?
A dictator in all but name!
|
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| John Gormely - Leading The Disgusting Greens. | |||||||||
This an example of a self-interest
prop that
is keeping anti-democratic cowards in power?
is keeping anti-democratic cowards in power?
